Airbus A320neo family production thread - 2015-2017 (part 7)

KarelXWB · Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:50 pm

It's time for a new part.

Previous thread:
viewtopic.php?t=590189

KarelXWB · Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:49 pm

Indigo MSN 6720 is being prepared for its first flight:

First Airbus A320-271N NEO for Indigo Airlines | cn 6720 | F-WWIV by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:51 pm

And Indigo MSN 6799 is out of paint:

IndiGo A320-271N msn 6799 by dn280tls, on Flickr

[Edited 2015-09-24 01:02:15]

starbucks · Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Indigo MSN 6720 is being prepared for its first flight:

I wonder if I have to add this one to my logbook, with the strange colors and registration painted on the fuselage I wouldn't be surprised it's going to be used as a extra aircraft in the test campaign

sirtoby · Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting starbucks (Reply 3):
I wonder if I have to add this one to my logbook, with the strange colors and registration painted on the fuselage I wouldn't be surprised it's going to be used as a extra aircraft in the test campaign

It will do function & reliability testing dringend the next weeks. The "strange colors" is the primer, the registration one of Airbus's test registration.

starbucks · Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 4):
The "strange colors" is the primer, the registration one of Airbus's test registration.

I know

It's just different from other aircraft with primer and the registration is painted on in stead of a sticker.

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 4):
It will do function & reliability testing dringend the next weeks

You sure? Then I add it

KarelXWB · Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:56 am

The second Leap powered A320neo (MSN 6642) is about to make its first flight:

http://www.air-cosmos.com/airbus-a32...quatrieme-bientot-aux-essais-43540

KarelXWB · Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:15 am

Quoting starbucks (Reply 3):
with the strange colors

The brown primer is just a protective coat.

Not so long ago Airbus used an Avianca A321 to perform ice shape trials for the A321neo program. It too had the brown primer.

A321 Avianca N746AV by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

Sooner787 · Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Not so long ago Airbus used an Avianca A321 to perform ice shape trials for the A321neo program. It too had the brown primer.

Are those the old or new engines ?

starbucks · Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 8):
Are those the old or new engines ?

Those are the old CFM-56's, the first A321 with GTF engines hasn't rolled out yet unfortunately

starbucks · Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:51 am

*Nice to know*

Today at 10:00UTC it has been exactly one year since the A320neo took off for the first time

sirtoby · Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:29 pm

One year after the first flight of the A320neo the first production aircraft MSN6720 took flight.

http://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01IV/786052c

rbrunner · Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 11):
One year after the first flight of the A320neo the first production aircraft MSN6720 took flight.

And this aircraft is due to be delivered by the end of this year, right?

LSZH34 · Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Just beautiful with these engines! Makes the A320 family looking even better IMHO.

lightsaber · Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:13 pm

I'm excited we're approaching EIS. But... That is a bunch of flight testing to go. With so many weather dependent, it will be a push to deliver in 2015.

Lightsaber

dynkrisolo · Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I'm excited we're approaching EIS. But... That is a bunch of flight testing to go. With so many weather dependent, it will be a push to deliver in 2015.

I guess if there is any delay, we'll find out officially on Oct 30 at Airbus's 3Q15 earnings release.

Based on what I have seen on http://www.fr24.com, I will be surprised if the first delivery is still scheduled for the end of 2015.

mfranjic · Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 11):
One year after the first flight of the A320neo, the first production aircraft, MSN 6720, took flight.

And so, IndiGo´s the first Airbus A320-271N (MSN 6720) aircraft, reg. F-WWIV, powered by twin

. PW1127G-JM geared turbofans, took off before the second Airbus A320-251N (MSN 6642) prototype, reg. D-AVVB, powered by twin dual-shaft turbofan engines, type

. LEAP-1A.

Nice regards

Mario

starbucks · Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:30 am

I wonder if there is something with F-WNEO, it's still in Al-Ain and hasn't been flying since the 22nd

lightsaber · Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 15):
Based on what I have seen

Yes, I agree EIS in 2015 is 'challenging' It looks as if Bombardier will hold to 1H2016 delivery schedule:

YYZYYT posted this link:
http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKCN0RO2C720150924

I'm very curious which GTF will be first in service...

Lightsaber

pugman211 · Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:53 pm

Just for comparison, there are 12 production A320 Neo's now in various assembly stages, although I think less are at FAL assembly level. So far, I've seen info for the first 22 frames, all of which are GTF's.

StTim · Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:08 pm

What are the major airframe differences between the GTF and LEAP frames?

Pylon? Fuels system (or have they tried to standardise this)? Wing strengthening (I presume the different engines do put slightly different loads through the airframe? Any thing else?

mjoelnir · Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:12 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 20):
What are the major airframe differences between the GTF and LEAP frames?

Pylon? Fuels system (or have they tried to standardise this)? Wing strengthening (I presume the different engines do put slightly different loads through the airframe? Any thing else?

I would assume the pylon only plus software.

KarelXWB · Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:52 am

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 11):
One year after the first flight of the A320neo the first production aircraft MSN6720 took flight.

=>

First Airbus A320neo to be delivered (to IndiGo) in Toulouse by David BARRIE, on Flickr

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I'm excited we're approaching EIS. But... That is a bunch of flight testing to go. With so many weather dependent, it will be a push to deliver in 2015.

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 15):
Based on what I have seen on http://www.fr24.com, I will be surprised if the first delivery is still scheduled for the end of 2015.

Still lots of campaigns need to be completed. On the other hand, the P&W fleet logged some 550 hours, meaning only 250 hours are left with three aircraft.

Aviaponcho · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:58 am

Hello Folks

Wasn't Qatar supposed to be the launch customer ?
Was did I miss?

Looks like quite tight for and end 2015 EIS indeed

sirtoby · Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 23):
Wasn't Qatar supposed to be the launch customer ?

Qtar will get the first aircraft, the production sequence is just different, as the first production aircraft will do some F&R testing. It will be handed over to Indigo after that. No change at all.

speedbored · Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
That is a bunch of flight testing to go. With so many weather dependent, it will be a push to deliver in 2015.

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 15):
I will be surprised if the first delivery is still scheduled for the end of 2015.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
Still lots of campaigns need to be completed.

I agree that it's going to be challenging but I still believe that a 2015 EIS ought to be achievable. Airbus has been pretty good recently at announcing delays in a timely fashion, so I would have expected them to have already made an announcement, if they did not believe they can still hit that target.

Given the fact that the engines have already been certified, and the relatively limited scope of the other changes, I suspect that any major issues would have been discovered by now, and that most of the remaining tests are mainly box ticking exercises.

Any late changes are almost certainly going to be primarily software related, so there should not be any significant delays caused by rework to the frames already in production.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
With so many weather dependent,

This, I suspect, is most likely to be the biggest risk to the schedule. The required extremes of weather are a little harder to find at this time of year than they are in the middle of summer/winter.

LAX772LR · Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:07 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
The brown primer is just a protective coat.

What's the white on the nose cone caused by, or what purpose does it serve?

Richard28 · Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
What's the white on the nose cone caused by, or what purpose does it serve?

don't think it serves any purpose, thats how they look before they are painted.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Karl Drage - Global Aviation Resource

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Photo © Lutz Pfeiffer

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Photo © Dn280

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Photo © Erik Frikke

apfpilot · Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
What's the white on the nose cone caused by, or what purpose does it serve?

Radome transmissivity is greatly affected by layers of coatings in front of the Antenna. Most likely they fully paint at least the part of the radome that will be in front of the antenna for test purposes.

speedygonzales · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:00 pm

Four NEOs spotted in Hamburg today:
MSN 6642 D-AVVB 2nd Leap prototype taxiing
MSN 6673 D-AVXA A321 P&W prototype engineless
MSN 6744 D-AXAH Indigo engineless
MSN 6772 D-AXAO Qatar engineless
http://www.aviation-friends-hamburg-forum.de/showthread.php?tid=9851

overcast · Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:32 am

I noticed an a400m going to Al Ain yesterday, and returning today.

EC406 from Al Ain to http://fr24.com/EC406/78ece85

This must be something to do with F-WNEO that's been there all last week.

Does anyone know what the reason for the apparent lack of activity?

starbucks · Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting overcast (Reply 30):

Thanks! I don't pay attention to A400's flying so totally missed it, F-WNEO hasn't been flying for a week now so I think it's related...

Hopefully not the engine again, but sendig an aircraft with the cargo capacity of an A400M makes me think the worst (sending a spare engine)

r2rho · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:07 am

Quoting starbucks (Reply 31):
F-WNEO hasn't been flying for a week now so I think it's related...

Hopefully not the engine again, but sendig an aircraft with the cargo capacity of an A400M makes me think the worst (sending a spare engine)

Too bad we don't have any spotters at Al Ain, but I'm afraid you may be very very right... which would not be a good sign for the PW engine. If these issues continue, CFM may end up overtaking it to EIS despite having arrived later. How much downtime have the PW frames had already, including the engine issues around june/july, the birdstrike, and now possibly this?
QR is launch customer, so failing the hot weather tests in the Arabian desert is not an option...

speedygonzales · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:18 am

D-AVVA has continued flying, so it's at least not something warranting grounding both P&W frames.

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:59 am

Second flight for F-WWIV (IndiGo):

http://fr24.com/AI02IV/78eef13

speedygonzales · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:20 am

Second Leap prototype is in the air:
http://www.flightradar24.com/AIB642A/78f2854

StTim · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:39 am

It could be related to the instrumentation on the engine/frame required for the testing rather than the core engine per see.

starbucks · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:52 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 34):
Second flight for F-WWIV (IndiGo):

Quite a long flight on cruise, 2 flights done, guess Route Proving should start in October (Maybe even Oct. 1st)

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 35):
Second Leap prototype is in the air:

Using a Hamburg callsign, second P&W used a Toulouse callsign (AIB01VA) on it's first flight and ferry to TLS

sirtoby · Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:26 am

Quoting starbucks (Reply 37):
Using a Hamburg callsign, second P&W used a Toulouse callsign (AIB01VA) on it's first flight and ferry to TLS

Looks like it's landing in Fuhlsbüttel rather than at Finkenwerder - visiting LH Technik?

[Edited 2015-09-29 03:55:36]

sirtoby · Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:28 am

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 38):
Looks like it#s landing in Fulsbüttel rather than at Finkenwerder - visiting LH Technik?

...just a flyby!

Clydenairways · Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:53 am

Any fully painted in airline livery with engines attached yet?

starbucks · Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:05 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 40):
Any fully painted in airline livery with engines attached yet?

Negative, probably will take a couple of weeks, engines are expensive and are usually installed at the very last moment.

I believe the engines are sold to Airbus by the manufacturer and Airbus calculates the engineprice into the full airframe price

So:
Airbus pays Engine manufacturer
Customer pays Airbus (the largest amount upon delivery)

To keep costs down Airbus will buy the engines as late as possible...

(Correct me if I'm *very* wrong)

[Edited 2015-09-29 04:06:31]

mfranjic · Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:35 am

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 35):
Second Leap prototype is in the air:

This, the second one, Airbus A320-251N prototype, MSN 6642, reg. D-AVVB, powered by twin

. LEAP-1A26 turbofans, each 118,33 kN / 26.600 lb s.t., will be, for a sure, of a significant help in getting so valuable testing hours. I suppose this is the fleet of the aircrafts that will bear the brunt of the remaining test flights and the certification program for the A320neo aircraft...

.

Nice regards

Mario

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 38):
Looks like it's landing in Fuhlsbüttel rather than at Finkenwerder - visiting LH Technik?

And now heading to TLS!

r2rho · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting mfranjic (Reply 42):
suppose this is the fleet of the aircrafts that will bear the brunt of the remaining test flights and the certification program for the A320neo aircraft...

Correct, with this teh A320NEO teest fleet is complete. Now looking forward to A321, then A319...

KarelXWB · Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 34):
Second flight for F-WWIV (IndiGo):

Third flight right now:

http://fr24.com/AIB03IV/78f6de7

KarelXWB · Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting overcast (Reply 30):

I noticed an a400m going to Al Ain yesterday, and returning today.

EC406 from Al Ain to http://fr24.com/EC406/78ece85

This must be something to do with F-WNEO that's been there all last week.

Does anyone know what the reason for the apparent lack of activity?

Unfortunately F-WNEO suffered engine damage at Al Ain.

Airbus found damage to one of the plane’s two engines last week at the end of the hot weather trial, a spokeswoman said. The extent of the damage is still being assessed.

http://tinyurl.com/p5qzkay

StTim · Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:59 am

They are not having much luck with WNEO. I wonder if this was systemic again.

starbucks · Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:58 am

Yet none of the neo's are flying the day this news comes out....

lightsaber · Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:30 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 46):
Airbus found damage to one of the plane’s two engines last week at the end of the hot weather trial, a spokeswoman said. The extent of the damage is still being assessed.

Ugh oh...

I have *zero* inside knowledge on this, but that just doesn't sound good...

Lightsaber

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